SSA Relationships 30 May 2008
Posted by sydcatholic80 in homosexuality, relationships, same sex attraction.Tags: catechism, catholic, chastity, christian, christianity, companionship, gay, gay relationship, homosexual, homosexuality, loneliness, relationships, religion, same sex attraction, same sex cohabitation, SSA
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After a little bit more reading, the waters become murky again.
There are a lot of conflicting arguments on what sort of relationship two Catholic SSA people can have.
Reading more posts on http://forums.catholic.com, the advice is that people with SSA are expected to live according to the Church’s teachings and carry their cross of chastity. Not only that, but we are expected to live alone, but know that we aren’t really alone as we have God in our lives.
There are, however examples out there, that prove two Catholic SSA people can live together, in a chaste lifestyle. David Morrison’s life is an example of such a relationship. He calls it friendship, but I still think it is more than this.
Discussion on Dreadnought also seems to indicate there is room for two SSA people to share an intense, close relationship, while not involving sexual acts. He sites an example of such close friendship between John Henry Cardinal Newman and Ambrose St. John.
Likewise, an example of two saints, St Sergius and St Bacchus, is mentioned on the Acceptance Sydney website.
I go back to my argument that God created a companion for Adam so that he would not be alone. I don’t think he ever intended man to be alone, we are not made that way. And yes, he has created people with SSA. I have been created this way. It obviously can’t be a mistake. But even so, I still require that close companionship that heterosexual people call marriage.
Update later:
Lindsey over at *! [emphatic asterisk] has written an interesting piece today on Attraction and Potential. Her point is that while physical attraction may play a part in two people getting together, there has to be a lot more for it to become anything meaningful, and all people, homosexual or heterosexual, need and want that more meaningful aspect in their lives.
On a side note, I have to add, this last week has been deeply encouraging. I have had a few people contact me through this website. It helps to know that one is not alone out there. For those who find this blog and are burdened, I hope that it brings you some comfort, and helps to answer some of the questions that don’t seem to have answers.
God Bless,
Josh
More on same-sex cohabitation – Can SSA Catholics live together? 27 May 2008
Posted by sydcatholic80 in homosexuality, relationships, same sex attraction.Tags: catholic, catholic teaching, catholicism, chastity, christianity, cohabitation, gay issues, gy, homosexual, homosexuality, loneliness, love, relationships, religion, same sex attraction, same sex cohabitation, SSA
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In my constant search for understanding, I have joined a Catholic forum. Here is my query, and the very kind Fr. Vincent has replied so quickly.
sydcatholic80 May 25, ‘08 11:54 pm
How does a Catholic with same sex attraction cope with loneliness?
I have done much soul searching, and reading on the internet.
I accept what the Catholic Church says through the Catechism on this issue. I can accept that in upholding my faith, the Catholic Church teaches I must be celibate (as is the case for anyone who is not married). This does not trouble me.What is troubling me, and there does not seem to be answer on this point, can two Catholics who are homosexual live together in a relationship that is celibate, but filled with love and closeness? Is this sort of relationship acceptable?
It is a frightening thought to have to spend the rest of my life alone, and I am praying hard. Is my outlook so bleak? Did God intend for me to have to live my life alone?
Any guidance is greatly appreciated.
Joshua
Fr. Vincent Serpa May 26, ‘08 1:12 pm
Re: Being Catholic and Homosexual
Dear Joshua,That’s a great name you have there! The Church would frown on two people of the same sex with same sex attraction living together because it could easily be an occasion of sin for them. It would be safer it one of them did not have same sex attractions. But living with someone is no guarantee against loneliness. One can be surrounded be people and be lonely. On the other hand, one can live alone and not be lonely. The key lies in the difference between loneliness and solitude. People try to flee from loneliness, but actually seek solitude.
For the Christian, solitude is not just the absence of the commotion and activity of the crowd. It is the state of being alone while realizing that one is not alone. It comes from confronting loneliness by going inside and finding that God has been there all along. This is what the contemplative does. Reflecting on Good Friday and confronting the pain that our Savior endured for us is to begin to know what it means to be loved. It is to know the Companion of our lives who never leaves us excluded and alone. I encourage you to spend time before the tabernacle in His Eucharistic presence. You may contact me privately here by clicking on my name if you want to discuss this further. You are in my prayers.
Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
I can understand the points he has put to me, and I plan to reflect on this. I notice, just like in my last post, that there is no scriptural basis, or Church law that prevents two people to live chaste lives together.
It might be “frowned upon”, but the Church leaves room for ones own conscience for guidance in matters where there is no explicit direction.
updated later:
I have also seen reference to creating scandal. I must say, why do we worry what our neighbour does? We cannot see into his heart and mind to know what their intent is, so how can we judge them? Should we be judging them? God is ultimately our judge. Jesus also said, remove the stake from your own eye, before removing the splinter from your brothers eye. If two people are living together, we shouldn’t be presuming sin. Even the law of the land has a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Life is a constant battle with sin and temptation. In reflecting on my life to date, this is very true. Now with my eyes more open than they have been for some time, I am more aware of myself, and I pray each day to remain in a state of grace.
I know I have the internal fortitude, and with my prayers, and those of my friends, family and church community, and knowing the love of God, I can overcome my temptations.
I believe though, that love is something God gave us all, and Jesus demonstrated that love repeatedly while on this earth, and through His ultimate sacrifice for us. I do not believe that my love for another is sinful. And I don’t believe He would lead me into a life of loneliness. My own conscience tells me I am capable of loving someone deeply in a chaste way. My own conscience tells me two people can love and support each other in this way. This world does not care for those who are alone, how is it fair to expect someone to then to have to live alone? I don’t believe God would condemn me for seeking out a companion for life.
I’m not trying to be provocative, nor disrespectful or disobedient to the Catholic Church and Her teachings, but I am merely trying to raise some discussion on a point, and discover the answers to my questions.
I think debate is a healthy mechanism in discovering the truth.
Well those are my thoughts for today. Always happy for comments.
Should SSA Catholic’s Have Boyfriends? – Thread on the Facebook group “Dreadnoughters” 27 May 2008
Posted by sydcatholic80 in homosexuality, relationships, same sex attraction.Tags: catholic, catholicism, christianity, gay, gay catholic, homosexual, homosexuality, love, relationships, religion, same sex attraction, SSA
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I decided to take a peek at John Heard’s group “Dreadnoughters” on Facebook. It has a discussion board, and I think it is fostering a lot of healthy debate on topical issues.
I found this thread “Should SSA Catholics Have Boyfriends?“.
I feel, given what was discussed here, that there is hope for SSA Catholic’s seeking to have fulfilling and holy relationships.
Erik Huntzicker had this to say at the end of the thread:
“People, and institutions, can be wrong.”
But God cannot be wrong. Catholics believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, i.e. God, and therefore entrusted it with the guardianship of His truth. The moral teaching of the Church – especially when seen as also guided by the Holy Spirit – is therefore not seen as a human invention, an institutional behavior code, but as the command of God himself.
Therefore, if one stipulates to the divinity of Christ and to the fact the He founded the Catholic Church, then the Church’s teachings MUST be viewed as authoritative.
This does not mean that the Church has something to say on every little detail of life. For instance, it is clear that the Church teaches homogenital sex to be wrong. But the Church is silent on whether two men who are homosexually inclined can live together in chastity for the purposes of mutual love and support. In these cases the Church teaches the Christian to invoke prudential judgment and use his conscience – hopefully well formed – to make the best decision.
So there is considerable freedom to act within the Catholic moral framework, given that the intent of the one acting is in the spirit of Catholic moral teaching and for the greater glory of God. This is where a “faithful SSA Catholic” – or any faithful Catholic – can become mightily confused. It is expected that people of good will will disagree on many matters governed by “prudential judgment”.
Having this “externally imposed” moral structure does not relieve the Catholic of making moral decisions for himself. On the contrary, in very real ways, it forces him to do so. And it is when a person is compelled to make moral decisions contrary to his personal will or physical appetites that, as a person, he asserts those qualitites of his human being – namely reason and rational will – which distinguish himself from the rest of the created world. Therefore, rather than robbing a Christian of his human dignitiy and self-determination, the Church actually demands it and provides us with the best means of achieving it.
This thread is definitely worth a read for those of us who are feeling alone and conflicted.
Identity and what defines us 24 May 2008
Posted by sydcatholic80 in homosexuality, relationships, same sex attraction.Tags: discrimination, gay, homosexual, homosexuality, identity, isolation, love, relationships, same sex attraction, stereotypes
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Today in my wordpress browsing, I came across a blog where the post of the day discussed how homosexual relationships had higher compatibility than heterosexual relationships. You can read Pat’s post here…
Here is my response
Your post is tending to say “Gay relationships are highly driven by sex” which then implies they do not really have any long lasting deep emotional connections.
I am an SSA man, but I don’t have that same sex drive, and if anything, I see in myself a higher level of EQ than some men. And for me, I am looking for that deep emotional attachment in a relationship first and foremost.
Also, I know lots of straight men who don’t have the voracious appetites for sexual pleasure that you say men have. And they have deep emotional attachment to their wives. I will accept this is not as common, but it does exist.
Additionally, I feel your comment on Gays and Lesbians considered as ethnic groups as further isolating homosexual people. Ethnic ghettos are bad news, you can see this experience all over the world. If people don’t mix out there in the world, we tend to be blinkered, and very limited in our thoughts and experiences. How can we understand one another if we stay on our side, and they stay on theirs, and never interact? This even goes on inside the homosexual community, with gays discriminating against lesbians, and even worse, amongst themselves.
And perhaps this is why I prefer to use SSA (Same-Sex-Attracted) rather than gay in describing myself, because gay has become, like you say, an ethnicity. There is too much baggage. I am attracted to men. Period. The rest is superfluous, a stereotype and lifestyle that people are brainwashed into thinking they must subscribe to. I am a lot more than my SSA. It doesn’t define who I am, it is merely a part of my human complexity.
Yes, it hasn’t been easy for homosexual people in the past, and we have needed a loud voice to be heard and get the rights and freedoms that have been hard won to date, but it is now time for homosexual people to evaluate what is happening now.
We have been fighting for equality, for the right to live the same as anyone else in society, but now we are tending to exclusivity, isolation, and separation from everyone else through the “gay” lifestyle.
Shouldn’t we be looking to build on our victories, and instead continue to strive for acceptance, and to be integrated into our heterogeneous world.
And just to avoid misinterpretation:
Heterogeneous: diverse in character or content.
In my opinion, sexual orientation does not define us, but rather is just a part of our human complexity.
Apart from this, there is the separation, segregation, isolation and exclusion of anyone else who does not belong to the lifestyle. Pat says
“Gays and lesbians can be considered ethnic groups. As such, we share a certain humor, culture and experience. We are drawn together and made stronger as a group by social marginalization. Homosexual relationships can benefit from this by having more in common with each other.”
Isolation is not an answer to marginalisation. It can only make things worse. This idea that gays and lesbians are an ethnic group seems dangerous to me. This “ghettofication” only serves to further widen the chasm between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
What do you think?


