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SSA Relationships 30 May 2008

Posted by sydcatholic80 in homosexuality, relationships, same sex attraction.
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1 comment so far

After a little bit more reading, the waters become murky again.

There are a lot of conflicting arguments on what sort of relationship two Catholic SSA people can have.

Reading more posts on http://forums.catholic.com, the advice is that people with SSA are expected to live according to the Church’s teachings and carry their cross of chastity. Not only that, but we are expected to live alone, but know that we aren’t really alone as we have God in our lives.

There are, however examples out there, that prove two Catholic SSA people can live together, in a chaste lifestyle. David Morrison’s life is an example of such a relationship. He calls it friendship, but I still think it is more than this. 

Discussion on Dreadnought also seems to indicate there is room for two SSA people to share an intense, close relationship, while not involving sexual acts. He sites an example of such close friendship between John Henry Cardinal Newman and Ambrose St. John.

Likewise, an example of two saints, St Sergius and St Bacchus, is mentioned on the Acceptance Sydney website.

I go back to my argument that God created a companion for Adam so that he would not be alone. I don’t think he ever intended man to be alone, we are not made that way. And yes, he has created people with SSA. I have been created this way. It obviously can’t be a mistake. But even so, I still require that close companionship that heterosexual people call marriage.

Update later:

Lindsey over at *! [emphatic asterisk] has written an interesting piece today on Attraction and Potential. Her point is that while physical attraction may play a part in two people getting together, there has to be a lot more for it to become anything meaningful, and all people, homosexual or heterosexual, need and want that more meaningful aspect in their lives.

On a side note, I have to add, this last week has been deeply encouraging. I have had a few people contact me through this website. It helps to know that one is not alone out there. For those who find this blog and are burdened, I hope that it brings you some comfort, and helps to answer some of the questions that don’t seem to have answers. 

God Bless,

Josh

More on same-sex cohabitation – Can SSA Catholics live together? 27 May 2008

Posted by sydcatholic80 in homosexuality, relationships, same sex attraction.
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2 comments

In my constant search for understanding, I have joined a Catholic forum. Here is my query, and the very kind Fr. Vincent has replied so quickly.

sydcatholic80 May 25, ‘08 11:54 pm

 


  

How does a Catholic with same sex attraction cope with loneliness?
 
I have done much soul searching, and reading on the internet.
I accept what the Catholic Church says through the Catechism on this issue. I can accept that in upholding my faith, the Catholic Church teaches I must be celibate (as is the case for anyone who is not married). This does not trouble me.     

What is troubling me, and there does not seem to be answer on this point, can two Catholics who are homosexual live together in a relationship that is celibate, but filled with love and closeness? Is this sort of relationship acceptable?

It is a frightening thought to have to spend the rest of my life alone, and I am praying hard. Is my outlook so bleak? Did God intend for me to have to live my life alone?

Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Joshua

Fr. Vincent Serpa May 26, ‘08 1:12 pm

 


  

Re: Being Catholic and Homosexual
 
Dear Joshua,     

That’s a great name you have there! The Church would frown on two people of the same sex with same sex attraction living together because it could easily be an occasion of sin for them. It would be safer it one of them did not have same sex attractions. But living with someone is no guarantee against loneliness. One can be surrounded be people and be lonely. On the other hand, one can live alone and not be lonely. The key lies in the difference between loneliness and solitude. People try to flee from loneliness, but actually seek solitude. 

For the Christian, solitude is not just the absence of the commotion and activity of the crowd. It is the state of being alone while realizing that one is not alone. It comes from confronting loneliness by going inside and finding that God has been there all along. This is what the contemplative does. Reflecting on Good Friday and confronting the pain that our Savior endured for us is to begin to know what it means to be loved. It is to know the Companion of our lives who never leaves us excluded and alone. I encourage you to spend time before the tabernacle in His Eucharistic presence. You may contact me privately here by clicking on my name if you want to discuss this further. You are in my prayers.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

I can understand the points he has put to me, and I plan to reflect on this. I notice, just like in my last post, that there is no scriptural basis, or Church law that prevents two people to live chaste lives together.

It might be “frowned upon”, but the Church leaves room for ones own conscience for guidance in matters where there is no explicit direction. 

updated later:

I have also seen reference to creating scandal. I must say, why do we worry what our neighbour does? We cannot see into his heart and mind to know what their intent is, so how can we judge them? Should we be judging them? God is ultimately our judge. Jesus also said, remove the stake from your own eye, before removing the splinter from your brothers eye. If two people are living together, we shouldn’t be presuming sin. Even the law of the land has a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Life is a constant battle with sin and temptation. In reflecting on my life to date, this is very true. Now with my eyes more open than they have been for some time, I am more aware of myself, and I pray each day to remain in a state of grace. 

I know I have the internal fortitude, and with my prayers, and those of my friends, family and church community, and knowing the love of God, I can overcome my temptations.

I believe though, that love is something God gave us all, and Jesus demonstrated that love repeatedly while on this earth, and through His ultimate sacrifice for us. I do not believe that my love for another is sinful. And I don’t believe He would lead me into a life of loneliness. My own conscience tells me I am capable of loving someone deeply in a chaste way. My own conscience tells me two people can love and support each other in this way. This world does not care for those who are alone, how is it fair to expect someone to then to have to live alone? I don’t believe God would condemn me for seeking out a companion for life.

I’m not trying to be provocative, nor disrespectful or disobedient to the Catholic Church and Her teachings, but I am merely trying to raise some discussion on a point, and discover the answers to my questions.

I think debate is a healthy mechanism in discovering the truth.

Well those are my thoughts for today. Always happy for comments.

What is in a relationship? 22 May 2008

Posted by sydcatholic80 in Stories, homosexuality, relationships, same sex attraction.
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5 comments

This post started from a conversation I had with Lindsey (from *! [emphatic asterisk]). Thank you for starting me off! To everyone else reading, I am sorry it is long, but it is a complicated issue.

In all of the current “Gay Marriage” debate, there is a lot of discourse on what marriage is, and what a relationship is. Even the church’s all weigh in with views, denouncing homosexual relationships as disordered. I am in no way arguing for gay marriage (though I do believe in legal rights to protect a same-sex-couple financially for example).

I would like to share my insight into what a homosexual relationship can be. 

When I was 22 I met my soulmate. He was a lot of firsts for me. (He was not my first kiss, but he was my second! ;-)

It started on gay.com of all places. I don’t mean to be judgmental, but it is not the nicest of places. People tend to cruise there for random fun. It’s just not my thing. But that night, it all seemed it was a chance by design. I was about to give up for the evening, maybe for a while. I had just not had any luck finding someone for months and months. But like quitting smoking, I was going to quit it tomorrow :-P  Then someone in the chat room piped up: “Someone, say something!”

And I did. And there was every chance that I might not have met him. I might have closed the window before he replied. The internet connection might have dropped out (dial-up in those days). Who knows. But it did happen.

And after a few weeks chatting online, then on the phone, we finally met. That day I was so nervous, but at the end, I thought I had met my soulmate. He was going to be with me forever. From that day had begun my spiritual bond.

Over the 5 years, our relationship was also sexual, but because of our secretive circumstances, it wasn’t a constant. And not that it mattered much to me. What else I had was wonderful. His presence was with me, even when we were not together. We talked all the time. We spent a lot of time on drives together, holidays together. He shared my circle of friends. He loved my family, especially my mother, and I loved his family too. We went to dinner at all different places, saw movies, theatre, symphony and opera together. We snuggled on the couch together, we kissed. On our holidays away, I slept next to him, I woke next to him. We cooked together, we ate together. We watched TV together after dinner. I was teaching him to drive a manual.

Because we both lived at home with our respective parents, we couldn’t always enjoy physical aspects to our relationship (and physical does not just mean sex). But I still felt close to him all the while. I would wake in the morning with him on my mind, and go to sleep thinking about him. I’d text him on my way to work, and he’d text back when he got a chance. We planned our future together. We wanted a vegetable garden. We wanted a dog. We enjoyed our escapes to the Blue Mountains, and he loved to go bushwalking. 

While now that has all come to a sudden end, it did exist at the time. 

When it ended, that close connection was severed. The pain and the loss, it was excruciating. There was no communication, and I never knew exactly why it ended, though there was someone in the middle, that much I knew. I spent my time cyber-stalking, piecing fact together from clues. In the end what I learned showed him to be a stranger to me. That hurt even more than the sudden end. It broke all my trust. For me, it was like he had died. I had lost him forever. The extent to which he had changed is dramatic. Even though he still exists on this planet, my first love is dead. 

Where does this leave me today?

The Catholic Church is apparently quite explicit about how it views homosexuality/same-sex-attraction. It states the homo-genital act is sinful, and homosexuality is “intrinsically disordered”. It calls SSA Catholics to a life of celibacy, much the same as for single heterosexual people, and heterosexual couples before marriage. 

Since the breakup, I will admit, I have lost interest for sexual intimacy. It was never that important to me. What is more important to me is the companionship, the closeness of bond one has with a partner. The bible talks about different love, and I can state there is different love in our lives. My parents love me, like no other. My sister loves me too, like no other. My friends love me dearly too. And above all, God loves me, unconditionally. And my partner loved me. And though there was all this love, each love was different.

It is in our human design, that we are meant to have that bond, to become one with another. That does not change even for homosexual people. I am not interested in the sleazy sex that is often assoscated with the stereotypical gay community, a different night, a different guy (or perhaps more than one!). The same pattern I just mentioned can also be said for heterosexual men. The Church doesn’t do much jumping about that though, do they?

I am a monogamous guy. I want that one to share my life with. The love that two people share in a relationship is so different than that experienced anywhere. As with “straight” people, it is every bit as deep and meaningful for “gay” people. 

While I am now seriously considering a celibate lifestyle, I can’t see that I wouldn’t be allowed to hug or kiss another man. Since it is not a sin for premarital kissing and hugging in a heterosexual relationship, I don’t see that as being sinful in a homosexual relationship. Hugging and kissing are socially acceptable modes of communication in any case, that are expressed daily, in public with all manner of people. A peck on the cheek in greeting, a quick kiss on the lips goodbye as ones partner departs on a business trip, or a comforting hug for one who is in pain.

The biggest question for me is, am I ever going to find someone who would feel the same, who could feel complete in the closeness we would have together, even without the sexual act? And if that person is out there, and we did live together chastely for the rest of our lives, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, supporting and loving one another, contributing to our community and working to live out our Catholic faith, does God really condemn that as a sinful, disordered life? 

God did create Eve for Adam, so that he would not be alone. By that, it is intrinsically a human need for a life companion. In my case however, I was created as I am, with a same-sex-attraction, and though that be the case, it has not absolved my human need for that other person.